08.29.07
art of tea poll
posted by Aaron Fisher | 9 comments
I am hoping that you can help me think about something:
As Issue 3 of the Art of Tea lands on many of your doorsteps and you begin to read, you might think about whether you would rather learn the Chinese terms for all things tea related, via roman pinyin of course, or develop some kind of standardized English translation.
Personally, I like the Chinese as it makes cross-cultural communication easy, as well as facilitates true understanding of something that was born in a distant, ancient culture. And English definitely has the ability to absorb foreign words, growing as it has adopted words from French and other language’s nouns as they are imported– even from Asia, like “wok” or “wasabi” for example. When I studied the Dao in college, my first teacher gave us several translations of a few of the more important texts, saying that no one translation of anything can bring real equivalence. For that same reason, I studied Sanskrit and Pali in my younger days. In other words, which is clearer: “Cooked”, “Ripe”, “Black”, “Artificially Fermented”, etc. or perhaps is it better to have all of them?
Still, whatever your thoughts are, I would greatly appreciate hearing them as the English scholarship of tea-related books, translations and articles progresses forward I think this will be an important issue.
Some pics from my 3-day weekend in Lugu (Aug. 24-26, 2007):
August 29th, 2007 at 10:20 am
A truly noble cause and I can only wish you the “Best of British” and will offer only encouragement to share your knowledge.
We are awash in examples from our colonial heritage, many in common usage today. Some I note, have not made it across the “Pond” bungalow, chutney, mulligatawny and khaki, come to mind.
Some thoughts:
Translation and Interpretation,
Interpretation, that, I feel is the larger challenge.
Pinyin with all its faults is a fair start, but has its “quirky” phonetics. (more stuff to learn)
Today I see much miss spelled Pinyin in China and Taiwan has its own variation
A much used “Singaporean” term I use is “Double Confirm”, something I think you will do much of. … Nam et ipsa scientia potestas est. Knowledge is power. (Francis Bacon)
August 29th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
Very interesting question. I personally enjoy the English translation, perhaps it is easier to remember. Royal Jade Snail and Angel White are so much easier to bring to mind than…..excuse me while I go look up their “real” names……Gung Pin Yu Luo and An Ji Bai Cha. My partner, the herbalist, really enjoys using the pinyin. I suspect his familiarity with Latin names of botanicals reflects his ease with foreign languages and enjoyment of them. If I didn’t know him better, I would accuse him of showing off a bit, when he throws out these exotic names of teas. I sometimes wonder if others might perceive him as that. I don’t want to be a tea snob. I’ve met far too many wine snobs who seem to enjoy hearing themselves go on and on about some esoteric wine feature.
Perhaps the better question is…….to what avail? Are we scientists, etymologists, linguists or tea lovers. Is it our agenda to educate, intimidate or inspire? Bottom line for me, as long as there’s an English translation, I’m happy.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:26 pm
I have to say that Michelle makes a compelling argument for what might be best for the general public but, personally, the pinyin connects me to the vast cultural history of tea that enriches the entire experience for me. I’m afraid that by anglicizing it, much of that cultural richness will be lost.
August 30th, 2007 at 12:04 am
I enjoy reading either as long as the alternate is also given. If the article uses “Oriental Beauty” it should give the translation (Bai Hao). If it uses Bai Hao, it should give the translation (Oriental Beauty). The more I read the pinyin and English translation together, the more it gets firm in my memory. They’ll soon be interchangeable in my mind.
August 30th, 2007 at 2:50 am
we have been selling chinese teas in the indian market for nearly 3 years now and we do an amount of approx 300 to 400 kilos of it per month - the speciality teas. what i have noticed from my personal experience is that without the complete description that is the english name, the chinese name, the pinyin, the season, the year, the story, the area of produce, the steeping time and so on i am not able to sell the tea. if i make sales, the client is unanswered and he either calls me or mails me and asks me the details ……. for me without the details the tea does not hold value - i for my sake and my clients sake would be very eager to offer as much info as i can for a tea.
August 30th, 2007 at 3:51 pm
I second Steven & Ankit.
Until most of the interested people are familiar with tea terms in pinyin (which won’t happen any time soon in the next decade or two), I believe the best approach is using both together. Using the terminology (together with a translation) is the easiest way to familiarize people with it. I think this might even solve the “tea snob” business since I see it daily how people like to use the pinyin terms once they know what the terms mean. But I think the core subject that Aaron is hinting at is the problem that English translations don’t really communicate the true meaning of what’s expressed, the lack of ‘correct’ terms in English. This is where education comes in and “The Art of Tea” magazine can and does help in this field. Take for example the term “Qi” that is often used in conjunction with pu-erh and yan cha (as well as other teas, but with these two types I see it most often). It is a sensation that certainly can’t be described with a couple of words. In issue 2 of AOT magazine, there was a whole article of 8 pages or so devoted purely to this sensation. It certainly clarified a lot of questions I had and made me understand my physical reactions to tea much better (I had attributed some of the feelings falsely to caffeine, although I always wondered why it acted so immediately).
I agree to what Ankit said above. The times are over when you could offer an intriguingly named tea without any other information. We’re living in an information age where people (rightly) demand to know what they spend their money on.
August 30th, 2007 at 8:32 pm
Hey Aaron… hope things are going well. It was nice to meet you at the Pasadena event.
I like either both together or the Chinese name (in as standard a pinyin as possible, and preferably with the tones indicated somehow). Even as a non Chinese speaker, I find it really annoying when merchants sell tea without some indication of the Chinese name, especially since the translations often differ from merchant to merchant. Ok - so tieguanyin vs. ti kwan yin, vs. tie guan yin, etc. etc. gets confusing also, but a “poetic” translation like ‘iron buddha’ doesn’t really convey at all the same thing as the actual name, and can be really confusing if you know the Chinese name but don’t know what it means.
You could just include the English translation the first time the word is mentioned in an article (for the name of a tea), and maybe have a glossary at the beginning for common terms. I think it’s more precise to use shou / sheng and then provide a basis for understanding them in some sort of glossary. That way, you can explain “often translated as (cooked / ripe / …)” and discuss the actual meaning.
I think you mentioned at the event that the Taiwanese pinyin isn’t that well standardized, so if possible, maybe pick a particular system and stick to it?
Having some recordings of actual pronounciation of these terms on your website would be really helpful, even though of course pronounciation is a whole other bottle of wax, since it’s so specific to particular languages, dialects and regions.
I think the two most confusing things for many English language readers who don’t speak Chinese at all are pronounciation and tone. It’s very easy to “hear” pinyin in your head as it would be pronounced in English, even if you know the correct pronounciation. But I think writing the words phonetically (except maybe in the context of a glossary, as noted above) is a horrible idea, as it’s even less standard than pinyin. And tones are confusing for those of us who grew up speaking a non-tonal language (at least they are for me).
But anyway, pinyin without the tone markers (or, for that matter, without the actual characters) can lead to some very confusing moments, as people may assume that “xian” in the name of a tea means “sprite” (as in shui xian [had the characters here but wordpress wouldn't take it]) vs. one of the other dozens of possible meanings of “xian”.
btw, this site:
http://www.nciku.com/ is really great - you can input a word in pinyin, and it will show you all the possible meanings with the various tone markers and the actual character, or you can “draw” a character and get the meaning and pinyin. Plus it’s got recordings of people saying the words.
September 10th, 2007 at 12:06 pm
At this very moment, I am drinking a tea called “White Satin.” That’s all the information I have, and I have no clue what province this tea is from or its Chinese name. I find that incredibly frustrating! Just pinyin is fine with me, or pinyin and English translation.